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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner |
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| Shamisen Question | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30th, 2008 07:11 am |
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1st Post |
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Karuson Approved
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I've always been in love with this instrument, but I just recently found out its name, so I have decided to learn how to play it~! Alas I have no idea where to shop for a shamisen so naturally I check Ebay and find this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/Japanese-Shamisen-SANSHIN-Set-Minser-Black-Japan_W0QQitemZ310087399002QQihZ021QQcategoryZ623QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 But to me it doesn't look like it has skin, just fabric, I don't even know the technicals to ask the seller about it, like even what parts are called what.. So I turned here for help. Is that shamisen any good, atleast for a beginner? If not, could you reccomend a good store/seller? I only have $400-500 available as a budget so I can't afford a lot of the more beautiful ones I see.. But I just want a beginner one for now anyways :S Last edited on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 07:44 am by Karuson |
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| Posted: Thu Dec 4th, 2008 10:50 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Chris Moran Approved
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This is an address that was given to me by a well-respected and reliable shakuhachi-playing friend. http://kotosandmore.com/Shamisen.htm The type of shamisen you refer to is an Okinawan instrument called the Sanshin, seen on the top of that page. It is a predecessor to the Japanese shamisen and it is made to play Okinawan music. Real snakeskin sanshin are hard to come by and very expensive. The kotosandmore site has a Mp3 sound sample. The sanshin you see on eBay called the "Minser" has a wood face which is covered in fabric. That eBay seller also sells a "standard fake snakeskin" and a "superior fake snakeskin". I have never heard these played. You might try emailing the owner of the kotsandmore web site at info(at)kotosandmore.com. Ask questions. (A useful question which I have no answer for might be: Can you use an Okinawan sanshin to learn basic non-Okinawan Japanese music? Can it be used to learn Japanese min'yo folk music?) If you can find a shamisen teacher close to you I would recommend that you ask them. "Japantowns" in major U.S. cities would be a good place to start looking, I think. If you can find a shamisen teacher you might also be able to find used student-grade shamisen that would fit your budget. I hope more knowledgeable shamisen-interested people will post here with good advice for you.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 4th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Chris Moran Approved
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I also would _not_ advise you to get the cheapest instrument possible. "Cheapest" can mean "really lousy" -- and often does when it comes to musical instruments. Japanese musical instruments would generally be considered expensive to Westerners used to seeing $99 guitars.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 07:22 am |
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4th Post |
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AllenZ Approved 
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Comment removed by author Last edited on Mon Apr 6th, 2009 09:38 pm by AllenZ ____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 01:34 pm |
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5th Post |
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Karuson Approved
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Thanks for your advice guys, I've decided to avoid Ebay and take up lessons with Linda Kakō Caplan in Toronto so I can learn the instrument instead. http://www.lindacaplan.com/koto/credentials.html After I went to go check I was dumbfounded that a Koto/Shamisen master lives a short train ride away from me. I'm surer she'll be able to help me with alot of my Shamisen questions~
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| Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 07:39 pm |
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6th Post |
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AllenZ Approved
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Comment removed by author Last edited on Mon Apr 6th, 2009 09:39 pm by AllenZ ____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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7th Post |
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Chris Moran Approved
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Excellent that you have access to a teacher. The BIGGEST mistake I ever made was to find a shakuhachi teacher and _not_ ask if he had a good student shakuhachi that he could sell me or could direct me to a student who could sell me one. (My shakuhachi teacher was very sensitive about looking too opportunistic!!!! So he erred on the side of extreme caution. Subsequently, I spent a lot of money hunting around on my own for shakuhachi on eBay and spending too much money on things I didn't need. Actually _wasting_ money.) Any good instrument teacher should be able to get you started on an adequate instrument for a reasonable amount of money. Knowing what little I do about shamisen, I think your in a decent budget range and you should be able to find an adequate starter instrument. I'm reading the autobiography of the late great Tsugaru shamisen master Takahashi Chikusan. He was one of the last real wandering blind shamisen players ('bosama'). In his story he tells about the inexpensive, lightwieight shamisen that he used to carry around to make his meager begging living. Only later in his career as a professional musician did he he enjoy decent instruments. (I'm sure he was playing an excellent master Tsugaru shamisen in the last 20 or 30 years.) Whatever the instrument, don't be afraid to ask your teacher questions and to seek out other teachers for their opinions as well.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 8th, 2008 05:45 am |
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8th Post |
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AllenZ Approved
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Comment removed by author Last edited on Mon Apr 6th, 2009 09:39 pm by AllenZ ____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2009 07:17 pm |
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9th Post |
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momo_panda Approved
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Recently the thickest string on my tsugaru shamisen broke and since I tried to teach myself shamisen and there is no one around to ask I wondered If anyone could tell me which strings I should buy and which thickness they have (for tsugaru) i found a lot of strings to buy on the net but I have no idea which one is the right.... Also I would like to know If I happends very often that a shamisen string breaks or if i have been unlucky I streatched the string too hard when i tried to tune it the first couple of times and it snapped during that... are tsugaru shamisen strings really that sensitiv? (I tried tuning the D and was at F or G...It felt a bit dry when I knicked the snapped string) How many string sets should I buy when i purchase them?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2009 08:55 pm |
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10th Post |
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AllenZ Approved
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Comment removed by author Last edited on Mon Apr 6th, 2009 09:39 pm by AllenZ ____________________ To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities. "You're lucky Buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I've got the desire to kick your ass!" 【温故知新】 「古きを尋ねて、新しきを知る」 |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19th, 2009 05:22 pm |
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11th Post |
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Karuson Approved
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I'm back! It's been over a month since my last post that I found a teacher, heres my situation: I went to go check out the teacher to talk about it a bit and Linda tells me lessons are $60 an hour and I have to rent out a Shamisen from her for $50 a month, and that I have to supply my own bachi, yubisuri, and hizagomu. Ouch.. >_< I get a monthly income of about $400 and I have to buy food and help my family with bills 400-70-180= $150 free spending cash I've saved up my own funds and now have about $300. Do you think I should take the lessons (2 hours a month) to learn the instrument, or would it be more worth the money to save up a couple more months and buy a good quality one and teach myself/use internet resources? It's killing me, I've been dying to play this beautiful instrument but I still haven't even been able to touch one *single tear* help..! Last edited on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 05:25 pm by Karuson |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20th, 2009 04:13 am |
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12th Post |
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fiddlefella Approved 
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$60 per hour is what most teachers charge (at least around here). Steep in my book. (why should a teacher cost as much as a lawyer?  ) Nice price for the shamisen though (when I had the option to rent one out, it was $25 a week!). So, in that department, I don't think there's any shoddy business going on. Though that's sucky that you have to supply your own bachi 'n all.No offense to any teachers or anything, but my two cents for you is to buy yourself a shamisen and learn it yourself. If you have extra cash, taking one lesson would be fine to put you in the right direction, but it's not at all necessary. The best way to learn is to just play, make mistakes and learn from them. Observation is great in learning, which you can easily do on youtube, where you can find hundreds of videos of people playing shamisen up close. I play 11 instruments, and I never had to take any lessons for them (well, I did take a few lessons on shamisen, but that was just to increase my repitoire). Just playing a little bit every day, observation and keeping it fun. ('cause if it's not fun, why do it?) Just my opinion.  Kyle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20th, 2009 03:31 pm |
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13th Post |
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Karuson Approved
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Thanks for the advice I'll continue to save and teach myself, maybe get 2 hours of lessons just to pick up all the basics and off I go
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 12:47 pm |
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14th Post |
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neverfrets Approved
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Hi, Momo, Just to clarify what AllenZ said: it's somewhat unusual for the low string to break, so maybe the tension is too high. B2 usually feels about right on a Tsugaru shamisen (that's nine white keys below middle C on a piano, second line the bass clef, or about 127.47 Hz on standard tuning A=440Hz). You can go a few semitones higher or lower, but if you go too high you'll start breaking strings. I agree with AllenZ that's good to change strings frequently. But that's not always practical when you practice a lot. And new strings are a pain because even if you try to pre-stretch them, they keep on stretching for a while, and needing to be re-tuned. Time spent changing strings is not time spent practicing. So don't hesitate to keep using a broken string for practicing if you can. Usually a string breaks where the bachi strikes it. In this case you can just unwind some more string off the tuning peg and keep using it. If the string breaks at the top, see if you can move it up a little and tie a knot above the nut. I've seen some very, very good players keep using a broken string at practice or rehersal. I'll bet Chikuzan tied lots of knots in strings in his day--and I bet he would have sounded good on a shamisen strung with shoelaces. As far as buying new strings, you need a set of Tsugaru-style (thick) strings. The gauges I use are The gauges I use are rougly 0.049 in. (1.25 mm), 0.027 in (0.68 mm), and 0.020 in (0.50 mm). The high string is monofilament (synthetic), the other two are silk. Some people use all synthetic strings (e.g., tetolon, a brand name for polyester). You can use a nylon guitar high E string for the high string if you want. To tell whether the braided string you have are silk or synethetic, singe the end with a cigarette lighter. If it burns and smells like hair it's silk; if it melts, it's synthetic. Finally, check your bachi technique and make sure the bachi is flat when it strikes the skin (kawa). You don't want the corner to dig in. Most of the motion comes from rotating the arm, not the wrist (at least the way I was taught). Every Tsugaru minyo^ player breaks strings from time to time (especially the high string and especially if he has a nice big bachi motion and good volume). It comes with the territory.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:32 pm |
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15th Post |
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neverfrets Approved
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Karuson, I'd save up for a few more months and then buy an instrument. Back in 2003 I bought a student-model Tsugaru shamisen from a guy in Japan for about $500 (including shipping, not including case), and I've been very happy with it. (It did get damaged in transport, so it's a good idea to request double boxing---maybe delivery guys are more careful in Japan). But first, be sure you know what style you want to play. Okinawan music is quite different from mainland Japan music, and the latter also has many different styles. The Okanawan sanshin is a very light-weight instrument, and it is constructed differently than the shamisen and sounds different. You really need a sanshin for Okinawan music and a shamisen for mainland music. Also, there's a particular problem with importing natural snakeskins (CITES-listed species). You would have to get an artificial snakeskin model. On the other hand, sanshin players seem to have a much easier time finding people to play with: most younger Japanese people I know couldn't care less about the shamisen, but I've never met anybody from Okinawa who didn't love the sanshin. Tsguaru minyo^ is the only shamisen style that is at all popular in Japan today, and it underwent a "sea change" in the 20th century, transforming from accompaniment and dance music to a virtuoso solo repertoire--with some loss of authenticity. Today Japanese traditional music is a "second language" for the Japanese , who all grow up hearing J-pop and American rock n' roll.. It's VERY difficult--especially for a trained Western musician--not to emphasize the first beat, not to play fast tremolo, not to treat all pitches as fixed, not to regard Japanese traditional music as having a "key", not to hear it as a "minor scale", not to assume a tonal center, not to regard a change of tonal center as "modulating" to a related key, etc. At some point, you'll come up against the "authenticity question" and have to decide if you want to play Japanese tradtional music, or just play Japanesque music on a traditional instrument. Guess it comes down to what you love about it. Anyway, a very important part of the sound and technique of the shamisen is the sympathetic vibration (sawari) of the open low string. There is a metal bar at the top of the neck, like a guitar nut that the other two strings pass over, but a notch allows the low string lies flush against the neck. And just below the top of the neck there is a shallow depression or gutter that allows the low string to buzz, producing a characteristic "wooooOOOOOOw" sound whenever a consonant interval is played on one of the other two strings. Tsugaru models often have an asjusting screw built into the neck the sits at the edge of the gutter and can be moved up or down to vary the loudness of this sawari sound. Also, the shamisen is usually played with the large plectrum (bachi), which I suspect would destroy a sanshin in about two minutes (at least, the way I play). Some might debat this, but in a pinch, one could play any kind of Japanese mainland music on a Tsugaru shamisen. For example, if you need to play nagauta, you would switch to lighter strings and a lighter bridge, and turn down the sawari sound. Voila! The downside is that you have to haul around and hold up a heavy instrument. But if someone was to attempt to play Tsugaru style on a nagauta hoto-sao shamisen it would be reduced to kindling. As someone mentioned, there is an issue with tuning a heavy, long-necked Tsugaru instrument to accompany a soprano singer. The options are (1) accompany an octave lower, (2) install lighter strings and hope you can raise the pitch up enough. I haven't tried it, so I don't know if it works. A Japanese teacher from one of the organized schools is probably going to insist that you have all your kit exactly correct---even down to the right folding fan. Tsugaru teachers are more flexible, as a rule. But it's really impossible to play Tsugaru minyo^ in the modern, boisterous style without a so-called Tsugaru shamisen. From what little I've seen, Okinawan players are the most informal of all: put on your flip-flops and head for the beach. Fiddlefella has a good point---but he neglects to mention that he was surrounded from birth by excellent musicians, and that while he was learning shamisen he used to jam with (and get advice from) the second-best shamisen player in the world.  Karuson, if you don't speak Japanese, then I'd suggest you get at least a few lessons from a teacher. There is much about playing the shamisen that is not obvious---for example, the hajiki where the fingers of the left hand flick a string (a form of left-hand pizzacoto). If you speak Japanese, then there are some good instructional videos available. If you also read kanji, then there are some good books. Unfortunately, there are no "how to play shamisen" books available in English. Finally, if you do see a teacher, it has to be a teacher who knows the style that you want to play. For example, kouta "small song" style accompanists (e.g., geisha) play the shamisen with a fingernail--no other style does that. And musically the styles are also very different: some minyo^ is in 2/2 time, while other minyo^ is uncountable (no bar lines). And Tsugaru minyo^ often have a "swung" rhythm. You wouldn't go to a classical guitarist for a jazz guitar lesson. Good luck finding an instrument and a teacher!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26th, 2009 03:08 am |
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16th Post |
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fiddlefella Approved
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-But that's not always practical when you practice a lot. And new strings are a pain because even if you try to pre-stretch them, they keep on stretching for a while, and needing to be re-tuned. Time spent changing strings is not time spent practicing.- Not to mention, they aren't cheap.  I love the sound of a fresh ichi-no-ito as much as the next person. The strike of a fresh ichi-no-ito is like the sound of an angel! (Well, maybe it's like the sound of an angel hitting the ground at full speed) But at $7 per string, changing them often is . . . well... pricey. I can understand changing them often if one performs concerts, but for practice, hey. There's nothing evil about lowering one's standards (it's a virtue!). It can only make one happier. I've used the same ichi-no-ito for the past year. (I de-tune it when I don't play to save string life.) Sure, it doesn't sound crisp, but I'm just practicing. I'm just focusing on my fingers and hand coordination. If one is skilled enough, one can make a rubber band strung shamisen sound good.* Bringing up the sawari a bit can accommodate the dull sound. Though I am very financially stingy and thus, am the other extreme. (and in these economic times, sue me )*We've had that experience with a violin we got many years ago. We thought it sounded like the crappiest excuse for an instrument ever (compared to other fiddles). We showed it to a virtuoso violin player to get his opinion. Well, when he played, it sounded like the best thing in the world (and he thought it was a good fiddle). So it seems that rather than the instrument itself, it's the person behind the instrument which makes the instrument sound wonderful. It was cool seeing my last one break. I was playing, and right where my bachi was, I just saw the threads starting to unravel, and after a second or two, it just gave out. Well, I thought it was pretty neat.  <--Geek look.-but he neglects to mention that he was surrounded from birth by excellent musicians, . - Well, that's not really true. My parents aren't the least bit musically talented (though they get by). How they helped us was that they gave us the opportunity to just play with the instrument and explore without fear of making mistakes (a crucial part of the learning process*). None of them (or my friends) play shamisen** igil or throat sing, but I can play them to a point where I could fairly well hold my own against a Tuvan (at least with igil and khoomei). So how did I learn? By just exploring, practicing consistently (about 10 minutes every day) and not concerning myself with mistakes. *That’s what why toddlers can learn to walk and talk so soon. Because they aren’t concerned with stumbling – making mistakes. **Sure, a few of my friends play shamisen, but only about 2% of the time I play is with them. 98% of the time I play alone. (I, of course, encourage playing with others!) -and that while he was learning shamisen he used to jam with (and get advice from) the second-best shamisen player in the world I only got to play with Masahiro on two seperate occasions, so that doesn't count! Sorry folks. I'd type less if I could! :-) Kyle
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| Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 04:56 pm |
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17th Post |
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PatD Approved 
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Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and rather new to tsugaru-jamisen and have a question is about putting buttons pegs on my shamisen. I have seen nice shamisen with the buttons already on them but has anyone put them on one that did not come with them? The banjo/guitar player who runs one of the local guitar stores around here recommended putting them on the neck, right above where the neck goes into the body, and the other on the end of the spike coming out of the body. He said this would be easier to do because he did not know the thickness of the wood on the body. I was just wondering if anyone had tried anything like this and if there were any problems with the wood splitting or anything like that. Thanks for the help! Patrick Last edited on Wed May 27th, 2009 09:06 pm by PatD |
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