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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2   |
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| Bury Me Beneath The Willow | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 01:05 am |
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1st Post |
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gerard mcd Approved 
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Hi All, I've been wanting to get something recorded for my Cookie Tin Banjo building page. I'm actually getting five or six hits on it a day, and some folks writing e-mail questions, 'cause I'm the expert! Lots of us crazies out there I guess. Anyway, it's a small first step in my plan to eventually rule the world. The recording sounds like a diamond in the rough, but I can tell you it's as polished as it gets until I get better at this clawhammer thing... and get a better computer. I thought I'd throw it out here on the EZFolk forum, in case there's a few nutties lurking here. After all I hadn't even thought about any kind of banjo until I became a member here. Hope you enjoy it. I put my own spin on some of the lyrics, which actually seems to be the traditional thing to do, but I remained true to the spirit and themes of the song. "Bury Me Beneath The Willow" Traditional  play hi-bitrate (mp3) (broadband) play lo-bitrate (mp3) (dial-up)
____________________ http://www.EZFolk.com/audio/Gerard_McDermott http://www.CookieTinBanjo.com |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 02:54 am |
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2nd Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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Gerard - I like it! I am in the process of looking for the cookie tin I will use to make my banjo, and I think your site will come in very handy. I, being the impatient kind and not that accurate in marking and cutting, am going to try to build a fretless. Nice playing, that thing has a great tone! Now I'm getting impatient! Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 09:51 am |
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3rd Post |
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Lyle Konigsberg Approved 
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Hi Gerard, Sounds great! And thanks for pointing out how I can finally combine two of my favorite hobbies (eating cookies and playing banjo). LyleK
____________________ ezFolk page: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1084/ Some Tabs at: http://lylewk.home.comcast.net/ |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 12:20 pm |
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4th Post |
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Charlie Approved 
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Hi Gerard, I really enjoyed your site and your music, I hope you don't mind if I use some of your ideals on my next build, I tried one cookie tin once and messed up the tin real good and never tried it again. Now I am getting enthused about it again and maybe for the upcoming holidays will bring some cookies even if I have to buy them myself. Thanks a lot for all the info Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 07:32 pm |
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5th Post |
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Philj200 Approved 
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Gerard, Some questions if you please. I just re-read your website. (Like your writing style too.) In my never-ending instrument catablism, I seem to have ended up with extra necks (alas, not 5-string, just tenors) One of them is an old Vega White Layde tenor with a wooded truss intact. When I saw the hole you cut in the can, a light bulb went off over my head. Why not just use the White Layde neck? It would not be as difficult as building a neck from scratch. There is an engineering maxim that if you take something apart often enough you end up with two. How did you cut the rectangular opening so precisely? Band saw? Sabre saw would damage the can. Jeweler's saw? Quantum Lazar? I assume you used a scrap block for the holes you drilled? If the portion of the cookie tin you're using as reinforcement for the pot is acutually from the same can, how did you get it to fit? It would have the same diameter. Did you cut a sliver out and glue? Rivet? Poprivet? (I hope not, they get loose in time.) I'm hearing a slight reverb in the recording. Is this extra tone a side effect of the inner ply of can acting as a tone ting? Or am I going a little crazy? Would you care to talk about your recording methods, tracks, was there a guitar there too? -- Added a few minutes later: Your truss rod assembly is elegant. I really liked making it screw drive accessible. The Gibso n people desinged their assembly to need oddly long, thin (expensive) hex-drivers which slip and mess up the finish.) A simple screwdrive is a lot smarter. Well done. Last edited on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 07:51 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 10:04 pm |
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6th Post |
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gerard mcd Approved
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Hello all, As each of you allude to in one way or another, getting the right cookie tin is a project in itself. I'm actually building a cookie tin hybrid right now, because I had only the lid of the cookie tin, so I'm trying to make a wooden pot to fit it. I figure it's the next step in my evolutionary process anyway. My wife once bought new cookie tins for $1.99 each at a place called The Christmas Tree Shop (I guess its a local chain). They don't have any now but supposedly carry them at the Holiday season for people who bake things as gifts. So you might try Arts and Crafts type stores or Baking related outlets. I hope to add more detailed info to my site in the next month, since I am fielding questions. Some of the steps, like re-inforcing were because that particular can really was no good, way too flimsy. I'd recommend keep searching for a more suitable tin. To cut the rectangle, I covered the area with masking tape, so I could lay out (draw) lines. Drill a couple of side by side 1/4" holes near the center so I can start my tin snip. Don't try to cut along the lay out lines on the first pass, or even the second. Work your way out. Get as close as you can to the corners, then clean up edges and whatevers left in the corners with a file. I don't know about reverb, but I do hear a bit of 'buzziness'. I think its because, again, this lid is very thin. I didn't notice any buzz in my original "duck painted' can. I reduced the buzz somewhat by sticking a little piece of foam in the back as a damper... got inspired by one of Brads replies about socks as a damper). My expectations on sound weren't real high so I am pleased. I half expected I was making a wall decoration. I had already cut down thru the scrap piece of can, not expecting I would use it for reinforcement the pot sidewalls. It just seemed a good use for it after I saw it laying there. So yeah, I just removed a little bit more so it would fit inside. It stays in place by its spring action, and screws from the outside of the pot into the 4 small plywood braces, and of course the neck bracing. Doesn't seem to have any room for vibration, but who knows... a lttle contact cement might have been wise. Hey Phil, this is getting way too long... I'll start another thread on recording. Gerard
____________________ http://www.EZFolk.com/audio/Gerard_McDermott http://www.CookieTinBanjo.com |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 10:51 pm |
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7th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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"Hey Phil, this is getting way too long... " --It's just getting fun! I didn't think of tin snips and I'm from an old tin-knocker family! Oh the shame. I think I will attempt this but I'll use up the old Vega neck. Now to research converting it to 5-string. I remember adding an outrider of wood, but I don't recall how the frets were added, if they ever were. Would not the lid of the tin serve as a resonator? There used to be so-called pie-plate resonators, metal disks that fit inside the the open back of a banjo and served the resonator purpose. I hav an old metal Rheingold beer tray, that fits inside both my Gibson and smaller Vega pots. (I usually play with a mute, so the resonator function is redundant in my case. I got home from work an hour ago and played Weeping Willow for 25 minutes.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 11:35 pm |
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8th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Philj- Why worry about frets for the 5th string? Just mark where you would put one for the 7th fret and use a regan capo or ballpoint pen cap capo. Unless you're one of those weird players who fret the 5th string  Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 12:52 am |
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9th Post |
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gerard mcd Approved
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Ok you win... I think the reason I had just the lid, was that back when I built my guitulele, supposedly for backpacking, I had some notion of a very thin resonator type guitar. I went down the basement and started carving a neck with the aim of somehow temporarily rigging it on a few different small bodies, or tin pans and plucking a string. Instead I ended up building a small guitar type body. As to recording, I have an $8 microphone plugged into the back of my computer. I multitrack with Audacity, but find it best now-a-days to do almost no sound editing because it just seems to go from bad to worse. Can't lay down more than three tracks because each track picks up more noise. As I record the track speeds up and slows down and skips. Gets even worse as I add tracks, and the computer has to play and record at the same time, so I have to try and go back and either cut or paste little snippets of silence as required to try and get back on beat. Drove me crazy at first thinking I couldn't keep a simple beat, until I recorded "Father Time, Mother Nature" in which I first laid down a simple tick, tock, tick, tock track. When that went haywire I smelled the proverbial rat. Tried a new sound card, but think its just the computer choking. (Note: some of the banjo timing in Willow is my fault.) I like Brad's idea of going fretless. My skill level requires frets but for the 5th string, why not? Gerard
____________________ http://www.EZFolk.com/audio/Gerard_McDermott http://www.CookieTinBanjo.com |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 01:12 pm |
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10th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I haven't been a 5th string fretter, but I attended a banjo workshop recently where Steve Arkin demonstrated several tunes and technques. In the middle of one piece I saw him fret the 5th (that sounds Constitutional) a few times. I asked about it. He said, "It's not illegal." His point of view is that it's a natural resouce of the instrument and to ignore when it would make playing a song easier or better is senseless. Fretting the 5th on my long necks is not practically and with the Shubb capo on one and the littlebrass gimcrack on the other, probably impossible. But on my 23-fret 5-string I've tried a few times and can see how it is an adjunct. It's not my habit...yet. I have experience with four types of 5th string capos. Five, counting the pen cap which works obviously but I haven't made one yet. The spring piece of crap, the Shubbs (they come in two lenghts) and the Suspender all require a fret to work against since they act as mechanical fingers. The little brass whosiwhatsis would work fretless, since it becomes a nut. Audacity and multitracks: Oil and water. I haven't been satisfied with the results unless I cheat and not really multitrack at all. Just play the first track into the room (on another piece of software) and record a defacto second track into Audacity which of course would pick up the first track. I've pretty much switched over to Audition. More complicated but seems to be multi-track friendly. The tin can banjo that looms on my event horizon will have a lot of pre-existing parts. I have the skills, but some of the oddments have been sitting in a tenor banjo case (where old parts go in retirement) since the 60's. Might as well use them. I have a set of Maltese Cross, bone friction pegs that will look great on it. Have no idea now where they came from. Now, the big question... Has anyone an experience converting a 19-fret tenor neck to a short-scale 5-string function? (This is too much of a shift in subject. I'll open another thread.)
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 07:28 pm |
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11th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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I played around with Audacity a couple of times. What I think the problem is with it's multitracking is processor speed. If you could turn off the writing of the sound wave during the recording phase, and not have it redisplay when you are playing that track and recording the next, it might be easier to keep the thing in time. I find that my n-Track seems to work fine and can handle up to 3 tracks (the most I've done at one time) with no degradation of timing, etc. Just my opinion. Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 07:38 pm |
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12th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I was a fan of Audacity until recently. I have a pretty good computer... lots of speed, space yadda yadda and Audacity just isn't up to the multi-tracking task. It is what it is. Very good stereo recording on a single track. And it does that at a price that cannot be beat. And I thank the publisher for getting me interested. But... Also, there seems to be a cottage industry of add-ons written by people goosing more out of it. Fine. N-track, what I know of it, seems to have more to offer. Audition has it all. Now to read the manual and learn a bit more of it. There are others. Over in the Mac world Garage Band which comes with new Macs is pretty good for our purposes. Hey Lyle, Brad... Want to do a Bury Me Beneath the Willow project for November?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 08:29 pm |
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13th Post |
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HowlinHobbit Approved 
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I like the recording and the sound of the banjo is terrific. I hadn't ever heard a nylon stringed banjo until just recently and I really like the sound of them. Love the website too. I bookmarked it and will check back every now and again. HH
____________________ Howlin' Hobbit Got Uke? MySpace ezFolk UkeLand |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 01:45 am |
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14th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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Philj- Sounds like a possibility! It would have to be in a easy fiddle key, probably A or D, but I would like to work on it. I'll have to see if I can figure out the fingering. Need one of you guys to lay down a basic rythmn track, so I can work on the timing (this fiddle thing has a lot of complexities that aren't readily apparent). Lyle? You in? Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 11:16 am |
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15th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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It's 7:15 AM where I am. I'm off to work soon. I'll try to lay down a few minutes of the guitar part in A-Major tonight.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 11:16 am |
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16th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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How do you delete a thick thmbed double-entry? Last edited on Wed Oct 18th, 2006 02:20 pm by Philj200 ____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 09:50 pm |
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17th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator
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You don't! You do what you just did. (Go to sleep!) Brad
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 01:17 am |
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18th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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I opened a new thread so as not to distract from Gerard's wonderful solo any longer. A few inches north of here is the same song, guitar part, in A-major as requested. Has anyone worked with cedar? I found a good-sized scrap that might be workable into the fifth string extension for the cookie tin banjo I'm thinking about.
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 01:41 am |
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19th Post |
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Charlie Approved
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Hey Phil, what I have found about cedar is it will split easy, very beautiful wood and is used for sound board a lot, but don't know about the application you are talking about, I guess it would not be under to much stress on the side of the neck as you are thinking. I make pin and pencil sets and turn them on a lathe and cedar makes a nice set if I can ever get past one spliting. Let some one else comment on this, I am sorry Gerard that we are using your posting for all this other stuff, but it just happens as we get to other subjects. Really liked the Cookie Tin Banjo and your song. Charlie
____________________ Yesterdays Tomorrow is Today http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/charlesculbertson |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 07:37 pm |
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20th Post |
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Philj200 Approved
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Gerard, Please talk to us about strings for your cookie-tin banjos. What did you use? Nylon guitar strings? Are there such things are nylon banjo strings?
____________________ My MP3 Section: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1143/ My Myspace area: http://myspace.com/philj200 |
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