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| Moderated by: Tony Provencher, Richard Hefner | Page: 1 2 3   |
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| Home Recording recommendations??? | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 01:23 am |
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1st Post |
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that_pete_guy Approved 
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Hey all: O posted this inquiry on another board but as usual when I post a question there another post get's all of the attention (usually having something to do with someone trying to get attention by acting like a jackass). At any rate...I'm looking to upgrade my home recording setup from a simple computer mic plugged into the soundcard and recording through Audacity (which is awesome btw). I'm looking for some kind of interface where I can plug in a decent mic and also an instrument. I have my eye on a couple of possibilites: Line 6 TonePort UX1 or UX2 http://line6.com/toneport/overview.html or Presonus Inspire 1394 http://www.presonus.com/inspire1394.html I'm just looking for something basic (just vocal and uke) but that will produce a quality recording. I'm quite a newbie when it comes to home recording but do know my way around a computer. Does anyone have any words of advice regarding any of the above listed interfaces? I would appreciate all input. Thanks, Pete
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 03:07 am |
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2nd Post |
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kurtk Approved 
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Pete, I really like the Mackie Spike which comes with Tracktion recording software. The Spike has 2 inputs (each can use either 1/4" or XLR connections) so you can record 2 tracks at a time. The Tracktion software is VERY easy to use. I did a lot of recording on various setups over the past 10 years or so. My previous setup was a Roland VS1680. I spent a TON of $$$ on the VS1680, Roland digital monitor speakers, CD burner, etc. Of course, when recording groups, the Roland VS1680 is nice because of all the inputs, but editing, mixing, and mastering on a VS1680 are a real pain and there is no good way to get the music onto a computer. This was very frustrating, so I looked into good computer based solutions and found the Spike (through the recommendation of our sound man). Since most of my recording now is me playing multiple tracks, and I can't play more than 2 things at a time, the spike works out perfectly. Tracktion has an unlimited number of tracks. (actually there is a limit based on your system hardware, but this limit is not imposed by Tracktion). The Spike is designed to be usable for Notebook computer recording which is great for me. It folds up and goes into a pocket on my computer briefcase and I can take it anywhere I want to record something. I haven't tried the systems you mentioned. They may be as good or better. Just letting you know what has worked well for me. There may be several new computer recording setups which have been introduced since I got my Spike, but I don't know about them because I quit shopping once I found something I was happy with. Some people have trouble getting the Spike drivers to work with their computer. I am using XP Professional on a Dell Inspiron notebook computer. I had to read a little bit of the manual to figure it out (argh), but once I got it setup, I coudn't be happier with the results. All the recordings on my ezFolk page were done through the Spike. http://www.music123.com/Mackie-SPIKE-i120712.music ymmv, Kurt Last edited on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 03:10 am by kurtk |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 04:32 am |
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3rd Post |
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Will Approved 
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Here's a pitch for a tried-and-true digital recording technology that somehow never caught on in the U.S. - the minidisc recorder. In my opinion, it's the best sounding and most portable recording device ever made for live gigging musicians. Loose Change & Friends records almost exclusively "live" on the road during concerts - we have no "studio" recordings (just a few recorded home practice sessions), so we don't have the luxury of using and lugging around a computer-based recording system. Instead, we use portable Sony minidisc recorders (2 in case of a malfunction), which we then input into the computer and process into CD tracks using recording software (I use Cakewalk Pyro 2004 and Audio Cleaning Lab 3.0). Besides the portability of these dedicated recording devices, they are simple to use, they can record through a microphone, mixer, or PA system, the blank media is readily available and inexpensive ($2 or less per 80 minute disc) and they sound great. Minidisc recorders are just as easy to use at home. Most of the minidisc recorders that you see nowadays in chain stores are not suitable for musicians looking to record live music; they have only USB inputs and are designed to compete with MP3 players. What you'd need is a minidisc recorder that has a built-in microphone jack and/or line input jack; I had to mail order my minidisc recorder to find these features, because I couldn't find them locally. Here's one mail order dealer that has a good selection of these: http://www.minidisco.com/portables.html Last edited on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 06:57 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 01:22 pm |
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4th Post |
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James Connolly Approved 
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Hello Pete, great post ! I also use "Audacity", which i do like, pretty much the same set-up as yourself but i have a cheap WM Mic plugged direct into the Sound Card of the Computer. I use WindowsXP and was also looking for better sound quality, something simple to operate as i am just learning about home-recording and not that computer savy. I do have a Shure Mic and would like to hook it up but its not compatable with my sound card so i have to stick with the cheap mic for now. I am sure interested in any suggestions and will be checking out Line 6 TonePort UX1 and Presonus Inspire 1394 to see if it will work for me, compatability etc. If I find any other devices that might work to improve the sound quality i will certainly post them. Thanks Kurt, will also be checking on your suggestion of Mackie Spike and Will, thanks for letting us know of the Mini-Discs Meanwhile, would sure appreciate, if any other members have any advice on some kind of interface to plug in Guitar and Mic, thats simple to operate. Thanks, James C
____________________ James (Seamus) Connolly http://ezfolk.com/audio/jamesconnolly http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/422/popmp3.php http://www.myspace.com/celticseamus |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 03:00 pm |
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5th Post |
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ductapeguy Approved 
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I have not used it, but I believe Roger McGuinn of the Byrds uses a Samson USB condenser mic (about $99US) and Cool Edit Pro (now Adobe Audition) to record his folk songs for Roger McGuinn's Folk Den http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/folkden-wp/ BTW. Roger has been recording a PD folk song every week or so for 10 years now. A great contribution to preserving our folk roots, and a great resource for musicians looking for PD songs.
____________________ Sean McGaughey, Singer Songwriter http://ductapeguy.net My music, podcasts, audiobooks and ??? http://ezfolk.com/audio/Sean%20McGaughey Listen to my music http://www.myspace.com/seanmcgaughey http://librivox.org Free public domain audio books |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 04:08 pm |
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6th Post |
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Richard Hefner Administrator 
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I'll agree with ductapeguy on Cool Edit Pro. I've used it for years and it's great. They were bought out by Adobe two or three years ago and now it's Adobe Audition, which I think lists for about $300. You can buy Cool Edit Pro on ebay cheap if you shop around (I think about $20). I started out with version 1.2 of Cool Edit Pro and upgraded to 2.0 when it came out. I notice that on ebay the predominant version is 2.1. I'm not sure of the difference but I've used version 2.0 for several years virtually every day in my transcription business converting audio tapes to MP3s and I've never had any trouble at all. I used it to record my own MP3s for a long time but about a year ago I switched to a Tascam DP-01FX multitrack recorder, although still after I record something on the Tascam I always import the tracks into Cool Edit Pro to make the final MP3. 
____________________ Richard Hefner MP3 Page: http://www.ezfolk.com/audio/richardhefner Running Blog: http://old-runner.com |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 05:07 pm |
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7th Post |
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scott59 Approved 
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I have only been recording at home for a year and have only used one interface. Its a TASCAM USB-122. Has inputs for microphone and instruments. I seldom use the guitar inputs, preferring to mic my acoustic guitar and banjo. All the recordings I have posted here (under Strayer and Campbell) were done using this unit. Costs about $200 and comes with Cubase LE recording and mixing software. Scott
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 05:16 pm |
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8th Post |
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Will Approved
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I own a dedicated external USB sound "card" (actually it's a small box), the ESI Waveterminal U24. Many sound cards that come with computers were not designed for audio recording and are rather noisy (this was especially true regarding my old laptop - my digital WAV file actually sounded worse than the original minidisc recording because of the noise and distortion). The advantage of external USB sound cards is that they are easily transfered to a new computer. These devices range in price from about $100 to $250. The U24 doesn't contain a microphone input, however, and I have to attach a Behringer mixer to the device to use a mike. Behringer makes the BCA-2000 a neat USB device that is a combination sound card and mixer, that provides microphone and instrument inputs, designed specifically for home recording use. Tracer-Tek is the dealer that I ordered the U24 unit from, and while I have not used the device below, I do have a conventional Behringer mixer that works great. http://www.tracertek.com/bca2000.htm 
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 11:48 pm |
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9th Post |
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that_pete_guy Approved
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Thanks for all of the input folks! It is very helpful. I've added the Spike to my list of possibilities. I'm doing more research also. I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck for what I want the system to do. I'm not recording Sgt. Peppers...just me and a uke LOL. BTW...I keep seeing the term "Hi Z input" when reading about these systems...anyone wanna take a crack at explaining that term to me? Is it anything I should really care about? Maybe rather than ask about a particular system I should ask..."What should I look for when researching these interfaces?" As I said I want good quality sound, ease of use and I'll probably never record more than 4 tracks. Thanks as always for any and all input. Pete
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| Posted: Wed Jan 4th, 2006 11:53 pm |
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10th Post |
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kurtk Approved
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This may not be completely correct, but I will take a stab at it. Hi-z is high impedance. Your typical 1/4" plug guitar cable is a hi-z cable. It is also "unbalanced" which means it is susceptible to noise induced from environmental EMI, etc. A typical low-z connection (which is also balanced) would be an XLR microphone cable. As I said, I'm no expert and this is just my understanding of the situation which may be flawed. Kurt
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| Posted: Thu Jan 5th, 2006 12:04 am |
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11th Post |
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Will Approved
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that_pete_guy wrote: Thanks for all of the input folks! It is very helpful. I've added the Spike to my list of possibilities. I'm doing more research also. I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck for what I want the system to do. I'm not recording Sgt. Peppers...just me and a uke LOL. "Z" refers to impedance (electrical resistance), which is measured in Ohms. For microphones, a "low-Z" model (common with professional mikes) is desirable because it will perform well over hundreds of feet of cable without picking up hum and noise or degrading the audio signal. The cheaper high-Z mikes will lose their high frequencies, be susceptible to hum and noise, etc. Matching the impedance of sources to their inputs (in mixers and amplifiers) is important. Electronic keyboards, electric guitars, and microphones each have a different impedance, and the sound will be unlistenable if they are connect to a mismatched input (wrong impedance). Audio mixers commonly have a variety of inputs appropriate to each kind of sound source and accomplish the job of matching and balance the impedance. For a fuller explanation of this, here's a good source: http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Articles/impedance.html
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 5th, 2006 03:42 am |
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12th Post |
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that_pete_guy Approved
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Thanks so much for the clarification guys! Narrowing it down and will make a decision sometime next week...I'm sure I'll have more questions between now and then. I appreciate the assistance...not sure why I even ask anything on that "other" board anymore Thanks, Pete
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| Posted: Thu Jan 5th, 2006 03:53 am |
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13th Post |
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JohnB Approved 
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Couple of things... These devices that connect the audio world to computers are great, but to get the best sound from them it is best to use preamps with them. Mic preamps are a very important part of getting a sweet sound. I was in a music store in the pro-audio dept. buying a Shure SM-57 (which btw sound best when they are brand new and do lose some edge after using just a few times) and a very nice sales/tech guy told me, if you don't use a preamp with that mic it will sound "poopy". Well, "poopy" was his subjective term, but I got the message. I placed an Allen & Heath MixWiz16 in front of my Layla 24/96 and it did make a huge difference. I guess the point here is to use preamps when possible. If you can, put a mixer with good preamps in front of your pro audio interface. He also touched on the balanced TRS (tip ring sleeve) situation. I used to call these "stereo" connectors, like on headphones. The ground on one end is switched when it gets to the other end therefore the all the noise that came with it is dropped. That's how I understood it as he explained it. So one thing to look for if preamps don't fit your budget, use a HI-Z device that accepts balanced TRS input and use only TRS cables. Plug that guitar or whatever that has the TS connector into the mixer and run the mixer's L&R TRS outputs into your computer recording device. If you are not using pure digital (anyone make a digital Uke?), you're getting into analog->digital conversion which I know nothing about but I've heard also has a lot to do with computer based digital recordings. Adobe Audition has my vote.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 5th, 2006 06:56 am |
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14th Post |
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Will Approved
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JohnB wrote: Couple of things... These devices that connect the audio world to computers are great, but to get the best sound from them it is best to use preamps with them. Mic preamps are a very important part of getting a sweet sound...
Any decent audio mixing board will usually be equipped with microphone pre-amps. Given a choice between a balanced (low-Z) XLR (3-conductor) connection and a standard 1/4" phone jack (high-Z unbalanced 2-conductor), the XLR is better; it holds down background noise and hum using the 3rd conductor as a ground. So, when choosing a microphone, make sure it has XLR connectors and use a mixing board or a dedicated microphone preamp to get the best sound. A "digital uke" would probably be something like a MIDI guitar, where the focus of the instrument is performance data rather than actual sound; on a MIDI instrument, the strings are used to activate electronic effects. Some of the "modeling guitars" have the capability to mimic other guitar sounds, or even non-guitar sounds, such as strings, drums, and/or percussion. Last edited on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 06:58 am by Will ____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2006 02:54 am |
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15th Post |
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that_pete_guy Approved
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I thank you all again for your advice...I have pretty much narrowed it down now to 2 candidates...the deciding factor is....do I NEED a phantom powered condenser microphone? I understand that for recording acoustic instruments and vocals a condenser is best but is there a definite advantage to having one which is phantom powered? I thank you all in advance for your replies. Thanks, Pete Last edited on Sun Jan 8th, 2006 02:48 pm by that_pete_guy |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 8th, 2006 03:23 am |
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16th Post |
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Will Approved
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Some (most?) condensor microphones are powered by a standard AA battery, with a battery compartment and power switch provided. Many good mixers have a phantom power supply (such as the Behringer model that I own). If you purchase a mixer along with your microphone, you are also getting mike pre-amps and tone control, so that's probably a good investment.
____________________ Will http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/297/ Loose Change & Friends http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/245/ http://loosechangeandfriends.com The Earth Tones http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/337/ A Bunch Of Coconuts http://abunchofcoconuts.com |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10th, 2006 02:01 am |
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17th Post |
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that_pete_guy Approved
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Well I thank everyone for their input. I decided to go with the Line 6 Toneport UX1 USB interface as I read several good reviews of it and the software sounds excellent. I'll also be getting a condenser mic with phantom power for which I'll need to also get a power supply for the phantom powered mic. I hope to be able to get some time this winter to write and record some original stuff. I have some ideas rolling around in my head but usually they just keep rolling around and the songs that actually see the light of day are the ones that I write in a flurry. Thanks again to everyone for there advice! Pete
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13th, 2006 09:43 pm |
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18th Post |
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banjo brad Super Moderator 
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For anybody who wants to try home recording without a lot of money: Hie ye down to your local Waldenbooks or maybe Borders (same chain) and pick up the $7.99 DK Hit Kit (tm). This kit contains a decent unidirectional dynamic handheld mic, a book on how to set up a studio in your home (basic - use the bedroom, blankets, etc), how to mic instruments and vocals (even includes drums, yuck!), and Music Production Software from Emagic(c). It is very basic, but looks like it would be a good starting point for beginners. The manuals are downloadable in PDF format. Runs on: Mac OS 10.2 or higher, 9.2 or higher, G3 with 250Mhz or faster. Windows 98SE/Me/2000/XP, Athlon/Duron or Pentium with 300 Mhz or faster. 128 MB Ram or more CD Rom or DVD drive for installation. Recommended system requirements: Audio hardware with low latency MIDI interface Separate hard drive for audio data I picked it up this past week because the mic looked good through the packaging (I have been using a Radio Shack lapel computer mic), and 8 bucks seemed cheap. I haven't used the software to do anything more than make sure that it would record ok, but I am hoping to put up a song soon on it for reference. Disclaimer: I have no connection with any of the above products or businesses except that I shop at both stores and bought this package. 
____________________ ezFolk Help Brad Prickly Pear Music Banjo Brad's ezFolk page TOTMC |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2006 02:22 pm |
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19th Post |
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todd Approved
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kurtk, I also have a Dell Inspiron and a Mackie Spike. I have had a lot of trouble getting it set up. I read of your success with it and would like to know what you figured out to make it work. I have successfully loaded the software and I can see audio levels in the XD-2 softap but can not get audio into the Traction software. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks, Todd
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12th, 2006 03:53 pm |
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20th Post |
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UkeForever Approved 
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Will wrote: Some (most?) condensor microphones are powered by a standard AA battery, with a battery compartment and power switch provided. Many good mixers have a phantom power supply (such as the Behringer model that I own). If you purchase a mixer along with your microphone, you are also getting mike pre-amps and tone control, so that's probably a good investment. Some. Many more now run from PP from the board, because mixing board phantom power is so common (a requirement lately, actually). It should also be mentioned that if you "mix" your mics-condensor and dynamic-then phantom power from can "fry" a dynamic mic that has a unbalanced output. Be careful. Higher quality dynamic mics should have a balanced output, which avoids this problem. While on the subject of unbalanced vs. balanced, you can change any hi-Z connection to a low-z connection with a passive DI box. You plug the 1/4" connector into the box, and you get an XLR out. These are great to have around. Most of these nowadays have a ground lift, and will remove that ugly ground hum and white noise, giving you a much cleaner sound. I use DIs going from my main mixer outs to my Behringer EP2500 amp. Some guitar pre-amps have all of these things built in, with EQ control, like the Baggs Para-Acoustic DI. Last edited on Sun Feb 12th, 2006 03:56 pm by UkeForever |
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